I wrote this letter to my step-dad concerning infant baptism. He sent me an email that contained a debate between 2 people, a baptist and a catholic. it will be an on going debate that i will keep you updated on. but for now, here you go. please feel free to give me any thoughts about the topic. i'd like to discuss this
hey bill
I've been trying to figure out why i never felt right about infant baptism. this priest in the letter makes it very clear that we have to be reborn of the spirit because the spirit births spirit, and no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they accept Christ as their savior and are baptized with water.However, i honestly don't see the validity in there is no concrete evidence that says either way. i'm still studying it, but i know that to enter the kingdom of God, you have to first make a conscience decision to accept his gift of grace. then baptism. never in the bible does it go the other way around.
Acts 8:13 "Simon himself believed and was baptized"
Mark 16:16 "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned"
and on many cases, it even mentions them confessing their sins and then getting baptised
Mark 1:5 "The whole Judean countryside and all the people of Jerusalem went out to him. Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River"
Matthew 3:6 "Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River"
a child is not conscience of such a thing, and therefor could not do step 1 to get to step 2. But then we get to the next question which is;
"when is a child able to understand to accept God's love and grace?"
why this is important is obvious, because this series of questions can be unraveled from this, eg; how old do they have to be for God to ignore the fact that they are incapable grasping this concept? this goes for mentally challenged people as well. so then i simply go back to this verse.
1 Samuel 2:3 “Stop acting so proud and haughty! Don’t speak with such arrogance! For the Lord is a God who knows what you have done; he will judge your actions."
God is the ultimate judge. he will judge everyone, and i know that we baptize because we feel we need to do anything we can to save our children. But we can only do so much on our own. the truth is, is that we can't save our kids from the pit of eternal darkness. by taking it into our own hands to "save them" we are robbing God the glory and bringing a sense of humanism to it.
i understand that saving someone like this is not meant to be selfish, but when we skip the part where someone needs to accept Jesus into their life and just tossing water on them, we really truly are. its putting our decision in front of theirs.
i know you understand this Bill, and you also understand how tricky of a topic this is.
there are other things i'd like to discuss with you concerning this letter, but i would like to know your honest opinion about this. what do you believe as far as babies and hell are concerned
love
luke
p.s. i've been trying to understand this one verse. i know it seems like it's taken out of context, and that's why i did not use it, but the Lord is speaking, and i'd like to know what he means by "and the little ones that you said would be taken captive". this whole section is talking about seeing the promised land, but he gives the promised land to the children despite their age, and clearly defines them as not knowing right from wrong. the same things that kept people form entering the promised land (no faith in God) are the same things that keep them from entering heaven. it even mentions how they were afraid that their kids would not enter because of the soldiers and whatnot, and afraid that they will die. Death was used very often in the bible as a symbol for hell.
so i know its a stretch, but i'm studying that entire passage right now, and trying to find more information on this topic
Deuteronomy 1:39 "I will give the land to your little ones—your innocent children. You were afraid they would be captured, but they will be the ones who occupy it"
2 comments:
dude! it sounds like you are in seminary! haha. Its funny we talked about this topic in Class a few weeks ago so if you have any questions i might be able to shed some light on the subject! hope your time in London is going well!
RC
......Mark 16:16 "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned"
whoever does NOT BELIEVE will be condemned, not whoever is not baptized.
i'm not a baptist. i completely understand the importance of baptism. however, it isn't necessary for salvation. i don't know why it's so difficult for people to understand that you accept salvation by accepting Jesus Christ as God's son. not by a list of thirty five other things. and regardless of the other things we are called to do, they do not determine whether or not we have salvation.
as far as babies go.... being a psychology major with an emphasis in child development... (well, development in general) i can say a few things.
"For the love of Christ controls us, because we are convinced that one has died for all; therefore all have died." (II Cor. 5:14) In my opinion, this forgiveness clearly points out God's all embracing love for His creation--we are all helpless and fallen. We have to choose to accept what God has provided for us and He never requires things of us that are outside of our capacity. If you are an infant, you can't be held accountable for understanding God's love and salvation, it's not cognitively possible, in which case you wouldn't be held accountable. Same goes for mental ailments.
As far as passing infancy and figuring out an age of accountability, it isn't possible. We all develop at different rates; some mature much quicker, while others much, much slower. Plus, it's completely unnecessary to know the answer to this question. It doesn't change or do anything. Ultimately, God knows the hearts, and God gives us each the opportunity to accept or reject him. He comes to us in different ways, according to our capacity. ( "not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" (see I Peter 3:9)) It would be unwise to arbitrarily select an "age of accountability" and to try and figure out when a kid is held responsible. Jesus loved children and called us to live lives that are child-like.
In regards to Deuteronomy 1, "And the little ones that you said would be taken captive, your children who do not yet know good from bad—they will enter the land. I will give it to them and they will take possession of it." You did take it out of context. You can't forget the second part of that verse, "... who do not yet KNOW GOOD FROM BAD..."
Most simply--these children had NOT been partakers of the sin that took place; unbelieving hearts and disobedience to God's laws. Deuteronomy chapter 1 talks about how our own bad conduct and our own error leads us to the desert. God can work through our errors, but we cannot be so quick as to think there are no consequences. Here, the Canaan remains as encouragement. Please keep in mind you cannot take the first part of the verse and not read the entire chapter (which I know you know and I know you're reading the whole chapter (hopefully along with the entire book Deuteronomy). Back to what I was originally talking about: children. Since the children were not partakers, they were given mercy and they were given the opportunity to learn and grow in God and to learn how to be obedient sons and daughters of Him, unlike their parents. As far as death is concerned, we are once again unable to give an age indicator, but I have no hesitation in saying that if you do not KNOW of your sin, then you are spared. There really is nothing more to it.
In closing, "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," declares the LORD. (Isaiah 55:8)
Love you Luke.
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